in category Other Groups and Movements

Have you ever discussed with an Ahmadi Muslim?

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I was surprised to see an ahmedi stall on wilmslow road so thought I have to go over and see what's going on.

I've never actually discussed with an ahmedi so was interested in what they had to say. I was surprised, but then again not that surprised, that they attempted to bring up loads of text including ahadith in the attempt to support their position.

I wanted to establish some fundamental principles in the discussion about what constitutes matters of aqeeda. So I asked whether their prophet (the liar) is established from definite evidence and how they would determine whether something is definite as opposed to indefinite and thus requiring ijtihad.

Sadly this point flew right over their heads.

Secondly I asked whether they knew the Arabic language and they were quoting a lot of text in the Arabic, they said no they didn't. So I asked further I said words are not only understood via its definition in the Arabic dictionaries but also through the phrases used in the Arabic like the words khatam an Nabiyyin. Again they seemed unaware of this.

They insisted the word khatam is different to the word khatim hence khatam doesn't mean last. They quoted one "Hadith" in which they claimed the prophet (saw) said "I am the khatam of the prophets and Ali is the khatam of the Awliya.

I later checked this Hadith and found some interesting points.

Firstly the Hadith is classified as fabricated. Secondly in another version found in Shia books the Hadith contains no isnad hence on both occasions the narration is completely irrelevant in its use as a proof that khatam doesn't mean last.

They attempted to use the statement of A'isha (ra) "Say, indeed, that the Holy Prophet is the Final Apostle of God; but say not that no prophet will come after him."

This narration again is considered unworthy as proof with no one I know of considering it a justifiable statement for evidence due to its many weaknesses.

As for the word khatam it's clear that the word means last...

"Taj al-'arus

The Taj al-'arus says: "wal-khatamu min kulli shai-in 'aqibatu-hu wa akhiratu-hu ka-khatimati-hi wal-khatamu akhir-il qaum."

meaning: The khatam of anything is its end ('aqib) and its last part (akhir), as its khatim is and the last of a people is its khatam.

Taj al-'arus also says: "khatama ash-shai means 'he reached the end of a thing'. From this is derived khatamtu-l-Qur'ana which means 'I reached the end of the Qur'an'. The khatam of a people (qaum) is the last (akhir) of them, just as the khatim is. And it is in the word of Allah: khatam an-nabiyyin, that is, the Last (akhir) of them."

Lisan al-'arab

In the Lisan al-'arab, it says: "Wa bil-kasri khatimu-hum, wa bil-fathi khatamu-hum akhiru-hum."

meaning: "With kasra (vowel stroke under a letter) it is khatimu-hum and with fath (vowel stroke above a letter) it is khatamu-hum and it means the last of them."

It goes on to say: "Khatim and khatam are among the names of the Prophet Muhammad and in the Qur'an it says: Muhammad is not the father of any man from among you but he is the messenger of Allah and the khatam of the prophets, that is to say, the Last of them (akhiru-hum)."

Further on it says: "Among his (Prophet Muhammad's) names is al-'aqib also and its meaning is the Last of the prophets (akhirul-anbiya)."

Mufradat of Raghib

This famous dictionary of the Holy Qur'an, under the root kh-t-m,discusses the various occurrences of words based on this root in the Qur'an. It then says:

"Khatam an-nabiyyin li-anna-hu khatama an-nubuwwata ayi tammama-ha bi-maji'i-hi." meaning:

"He is the Khatam an-nabiyyin because he ended prophethood, that is, he made it complete by his appearance."

Personally I think ahmedis live in a world of their own where they lack basic comprehension of Arabic and simply blindly follow what has been taught to them.

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